Reviewing the rules and terms of use

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Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Danikat on Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:52 am

It's been a while since Ctopia was set up and our current rules were written (a year and a half!), a lot can and has changed in that time and I'm thinking it's time we considered some changes to the rules and terms of use as well.

I've come up with a list of stuff I think needs reconsidering, but this forum has always been a community site first and foremost rather than one person or group of people's personal space, so if you can think of anything else that might need changing feel free to say so. :)

This topic will probably end up spawning a bunch of polls to get desicive answers on specific points, but for now just post your thoughts, feelings and suggestions on each point here.

So without further blabbering, stuff I think needs changing:

  • Forum games - Originally banned because of all the issues with spam topics passed off as games on the GW forum. Considering spam hasn't actually been much of a problem here I think we could allow some/all games again, possibly in their own section, possibly with specific rules on the difference between a game thread and a spam thread (if anyone can think how to define that).
  • Definition of spam - This one's just a question really. Is everyone happy with how 'spam' is currently defined in our rules (rules 2 & 3), does it need more detail, are there any other situations that should be added, anything that should be removed ect.?
  • Size of signatures - For the moment assuming there's no technical limits should we have rules on the maximum size of signatures, especially picture sigs, or doesn't it bother anyone?
  • The swearing filter - This one has been discussed before but I'd like some updated opinions. Does anyone genuinely feel that being unable to use 8 words (and 4 extra variations of one) prevents them from being able to use the forum fully? Do you think the freedom given by removing some/all of those words would justify alienating some members who don't want to run the risk of reading them? On the other side of things do you think there are any words not currently banned that should be?
  • Other adult content - Particularly in a fanfic/art context. It's not mentioned in the rules but it is banned by the terms of use. However this is largely by default and if there is sufficent interest it could be possible to create and 18+ section of the forum (yes that can and will be enforced) for those interested to share content inappropriate for the forum generally. The question being does anyone like the idea or is it not worth doing?

On a seperate note I'm also going to add an addition to our current rules that flashing avatars aren't allowed because some members are vulnerable to headaches or potentially seizures because of them. Due to the health n' safety aspect this one isn't up for debate but if anyone can offer specifics (eg. max/min speed for animations) to narrow it down a bit that'd be appreciated.
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Ghosthande on Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:52 am

An easy way to define a game is that games have specific rules on what can be posted within the limits of the game--for instance, in Hangman, you can't even guess a letter if it's already been guessed without losing a point, and posting randomly is just as much spam as it would be in a regular topic. Same goes for Corrupt a Wish, the "Pants Game" and so on.

I like the spam rule, it's a lot nicer than some of the other forums I've seen.

I think the swearing filter is fine the way it is now, although if anyone thinks banning additional words is necessary that's probably good with me too.

The idea of NC17-rated Creatures fanfics makes me laugh... sort of. But if there is a demand for them, let's have them in their own section. Another forum I visit has an adult section that was viewable by request only, and it worked out great for everybody.
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Amaikokonut on Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:59 am

Ghosthande's definition of a game is a good one. Personally I don't see a problem with forum games if they are constructive and stay in their own section, though I don't participate in them much myself. It might not even be a bad idea to poll to see how much of a demand there actually is for that option before bothering to create a section for it.

The current rules on spam seem to be suiting us fine, same with signatures. I haven't seen any page-long signatures around, at least :P

I'm personally not a huge fan of censorship in general, but I think the filter is fine as it is too. With the English vocabulary as huge as it is, losing eight words isn't going to kill anyone, and all the better if it makes the forum a more friendly place. Personally I don't think the filter is really necessary as we seem to have a mature enough community, but I certainly don't feel like it's infringing on any of my rights or freedoms.

The notion of an 18+ forum is quite an interesting one... I know I occasionally will write rather violent fiction (though not creatures-related) that I'm not entirely comfortable posting in general forums so I can see how this might appeal to some people. There is a slight concern that some might feel isolated or left out but I don't see that as being a huge problem with this group. Like the forum games section though, I would see how much demand there is for such a section before deciding (especially since the process of setting up an 18+ usergroup and adding people to it would probably be a bit time consuming for something that say... only 2-3 people actually want).

I might also suggest though-- if an 18+ section is created, that there be some method to tagging subject lines of the posts to describe why they are 18+, just so people know what they're clicking into. :roll:
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Ghosthande on Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:10 pm

Definitely. Violence and SC aren't exactly interchangeable. Even if it's just a convention of adding "Rated for [blank]" at the end of the topic heading, it would definitely be a good precaution so there aren't any nasty surprises and people know what to stay away from [or what to look for, as the case may be].
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Starrscream on Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:42 pm

- an elective swear filter would be nice but idk if phpbb even supports that
- ... who wants to write adult-rated stuff? names would be awesome ty
- please no games. it keeps the postership rather sharp.


as for the other stuff, if it isn't a problem why are you bringing it up
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Ghosthande on Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:08 pm

^ Creatures Caves has a game section [basically--see Strangeo]... are you implying that they aren't sharp?? :o

I don't see how games like Hangman or Corrupt a Wish would dull down a forum, since they involve creativity or logic. If we're going to include stuff like "post NEthing lolz" then I see where you're coming from, otherwise, not quite so much.
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby generalflame on Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:41 pm

How much adult type art and fiction do we actually generate, and how many of us really want to read norn smut anyway? O.o Really now. I don't see any real point in considering an 18+ section. Besides, this is a community that has always been open and safe for younger members, I don't see any reason to change things now.
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Ghosthande on Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:58 pm

My feelings exactly. That's why I said "if there is a demand"--ideally I wouldn't want to see that sort of thing at all, I don't think it's necessary and I can't see that kind of thing having a very large following in the first place. But if there honestly was a demand for it, it would be better to keep it in its own section than let it permeate the entire forum.
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Officer 1BDI on Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:13 pm

# Forum games - I don't play many games, so I'm indifferent to this topic.

# Definition of spam - I'm fine with it as it is.

# Size of signatures - I don't think signature size has been an issue here, so I'm hesitant to suggest any rules. That said, I'm on several other forums where those rules are very lax or nonexistent and it shows horribly. I think having guidelines listed for reference's sake would be useful.

# The swearing filter - I don't think the filter has inhibited my posts in any significant manner, and I definitely understand the purpose of it, especially with so many younger members and lurkers around. I think the list is fine as it is.

# Other adult content- I'm vaguely interested in this in that I have a few plot bunnies bouncing around and many of them involve a sizable amount of violence and "strong language"; maybe not 18+ strong, but I'd feel better playing "safe" over "sorry." However, I'm also not sure there's a great enough demand to justify an entire section dedicated to 18+ content, and I agree with the notion that might leave some posters feeling isolated. And, truth be told, I'd be just as happy to post the stuff off-site and link to it (with appropriate warnings) in my own art thread here.

In the event that we do end up with an 18+ section:

Amaikokonut wrote:I might also suggest though-- if an 18+ section is created, that there be some method to tagging subject lines of the posts to describe why they are 18+, just so people know what they're clicking into. :roll:


This. I don't mind violence in general, but I'm pretty squeamish when it comes to SC. dA has a tagging system and I've found it invaluable in how easily it allows me to find "interesting but mature" art without running into outright smut.
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby TreeSprite on Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:53 pm

generalflame wrote:How much adult type art and fiction do we actually generate, and how many of us really want to read norn smut anyway? O.o Really now. I don't see any real point in considering an 18+ section. Besides, this is a community that has always been open and safe for younger members, I don't see any reason to change things now.


Here here! I agree with Generalflame. Besides, I'm sure there are other forums on the net that cater to violence and/or sexual content in fanfiction and art. I'm also sure that if someone is interested in such they can find it readily. Most likely those other forums or websites provide more in the way of a fanbase for such content than this one would. I personally have no objection to sexual content, or freedom of art form, but I think there are likely more appropriate places for it than the CC which has, as Generalflame put it, always been known to be safe for younger members.
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby 3kul on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:07 pm

generalflame wrote:How much adult type art and fiction do we actually generate, and how many of us really want to read norn smut anyway? O.o Really now. I don't see any real point in considering an 18+ section. Besides, this is a community that has always been open and safe for younger members, I don't see any reason to change things now.

It happened once, so now it's being brought up. If some folk think that an adult section on Ctopia is something that they want this thread is their chance to show us that there is some demand, but if nobody here wants to push for an adult section then it's not going to happen.

Danikat wrote:Forum games - Originally banned because of all the issues with spam topics passed off as games on the GW forum. Considering spam hasn't actually been much of a problem here I think we could allow some/all games again, possibly in their own section, possibly with specific rules on the difference between a game thread and a spam thread (if anyone can think how to define that).

I think that it'd be a good idea to allow games here but only if they have their own section. I can see that people enjoy the Old Wooden Table Game but it does annoy me to see that most of the time a new post in the Creativity section is really just another post for that game.

Officer1BDI wrote:I don't think signature size has been an issue here, so I'm hesitant to suggest any rules. That said, I'm on several other forums where those rules are very lax or nonexistent and it shows horribly. I think having guidelines listed for reference's sake would be useful.

I agree with this. Better to have some kind of guidelines to establish a basic understanding of what's acceptable and what's not than nothing at all, even if it hasn't become an issue just yet.

Most of everything else that I thought I might say has already been brought up by the new mods, so rather than repeat opinions I guess I'll just end my post here :P
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Starrscream on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:30 pm

"Don't have an obnoxious sig."
"Don't spam."
"Don't post >PG13 crap unless you have permission"
"Don't post games. Or post them in their own forum. Either one."

How hard is this
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Borg12345 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:26 am

Ringo Starrscream wrote:"Don't have an obnoxious sig."


Does it really matter if you find someone's sig obnoxious? no offensive sigs I can understand but obnoxious?

Ringo Starrscream wrote:"Don't spam."


Agreed

Ringo Starrscream wrote:"Don't post >PG13 crap unless you have permission"


I'd say more along the lines of putting a warning up before hand. And why isn't "crap" caught by the word filter? :?

Ringo Starrscream wrote:"Don't post games. Or post them in their own forum. Either one."


Yes, have their own section for them, but don't ban them altogether, a lot of people find them a fun little diversion from the day in my experience.

Ringo Starrscream wrote:How hard is this


There's no need to be uptight now is there? (sorry if you weren't trying to be, but it sounds like it to me)

Also I might add something that's worked wonders for another forum I go on. A "Spamatorium". Just a separate section of the forum to post their random stuff in, works a treat in my experience.
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Tarlia on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:25 pm

Borg12345 wrote:Does it really matter if you find someone's sig obnoxious? no offensive sigs I can understand but obnoxious?


By "obnoxious" he probably means huge, often ugly pictures and/or text that take up more room than the average post. Which I agree with, I hate those. I like to see people's signatures but too many of the aforementioned type and I have to turn them off.

generalflame wrote:How much adult type art and fiction do we actually generate, and how many of us really want to read norn smut anyway? O.o Really now. I don't see any real point in considering an 18+ section. Besides, this is a community that has always been open and safe for younger members, I don't see any reason to change things now.


Yes. Like, what, we're maybe 100 Creatures fans left? How many of us are into norn porn? Really? And if anyone is I think it's better if we don't know. (And a "general" 18+ section seems kinda unnecessary too; like TreeSprite said, there's a billion other places for that on the 'net.)
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Borg12345 on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:28 am

Tarlia wrote:
Borg12345 wrote:Does it really matter if you find someone's sig obnoxious? no offensive sigs I can understand but obnoxious?


By "obnoxious" he probably means huge, often ugly pictures and/or text that take up more room than the average post. Which I agree with, I hate those. I like to see people's signatures but too many of the aforementioned type and I have to turn them off.


Well that I agree with.
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Re: Reviewing the rules and terms of use

Postby Danikat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:46 am

generalflame wrote:How much adult type art and fiction do we actually generate, and how many of us really want to read norn smut anyway? O.o Really now. I don't see any real point in considering an 18+ section. Besides, this is a community that has always been open and safe for younger members, I don't see any reason to change things now.

So far? One story, read by 2 or 3 people. So no, not much of a demand. The reason I asked was because it had never occured to me before that there would be any demand, so having established that there was some demand/interest I thought it best to ask before deciding one way or the other. Having said that it does look like the consensus is against the idea so far, so it probably won't happen.

On other topics, it looks like a games section will happen (with guidelines on what is and isn't a game), as will guidelines for signiature size, whilst rules on spam and swearing will be staying the same. :)

Also just for the record I deliberately tried to avoid implying that anything in the first post was a good or bad idea because I didn't want to bias people or look like I was pushing my opinion. Doesn't nessesarily mean I liked the idea. ;)
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